Transcript for this weeks message

Shane Jacob

Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to this episode of The Horsemanship Journey Podcast. We empower people who have had their confidence shattered or are experiencing fear to regain the confidence they once had, show up like the self-assured horseman and horsewoman they want to be, and go from living small to riding tall. This is The Horsemanship Journey, and today I'm proud to present Dave Sanderson. Dave is an entrepreneur, best-selling author, and he's a great horseman, author, philanthropist, and survivor of the miracle on the Hudson. For more than 40 years he's been a top producer of some of the largest sales teams in the world. More than 250,000 people have enjoyed his personal leadership events and experienced his warmth, humor, and his inspiration. Today he's here to share all that with us on The Horsemanship Journey. Dave, thank you so much for taking your time to be with us.

Dave Sanderson

Shane, thank you for having me today. Thank you very much.

Shane Jacob

Appreciate it. Right on. Well, tell us more about yourself. Where did it all begin, and how did you get to be where you are?

Dave Sanderson

Well, thanks for asking that question. I grew up in Virginia. I went to high school and college in Virginia. And, you know, my dad was a man of his word, Shane. He told me I had 30 days to be out of the house after I graduated from college. So, uh, and I was not 30 days out of the house. So, he helped me get my first job, which was a second assistant restaurant manager at a place called Howard Johnson. So, uh, the old HoJo. So I began my business career, and I knew nothing about hotel restaurants. Came to Charlotte, my third stop, and that's when everything started sort of changing in my life.

And I ran into a gentleman who used to come to the restaurant and his wife. His name was Bill and her name was Bonnie, and you know, they come in every night for coffee and ice cream. But you know, I found out through conversations that he owned a string of movie theaters and restaurants through the Carolinas. And so he was a very well, well-to-do gentleman. And on December 24th, 1984, he came to the restaurant early that day, and he said, “I want to show you what I got Bonnie for Christmas.” And Shane, it was a brand new blue Corvette. I never seen a Corvette. I couldn’t spell Corvette, never smelled a Corvette, but it was a cool car, man. And he threw me the keys and said let's take a ride. And we went up and down Woodlawn Road in Charlotte in North Carolina and got back, gave me the keys back. He said, “You need one of these.” And I said, “Bill, I'm making $13,000 a year, man. I can barely afford my rent.” And he told me, “That's your problem, that's your mindset. So let me show you how to be successful.”

So for the next 14, 13, 14 years, that's what he did. He was mentoring me for those times. But fast forward to May of 1997, he called me to his office and told me that, and so I got two things I wanna tell you. First, I got lung cancer. Now, Bill smoked unfiltered camels since the 20s. So it wasn't a surprise, but you know, it's still shocking. Then Shane, he went over to his desk and pulled out these pieces of paper and came down, sat right here and put them on my lap and he said, I want to give this to you. I said, what is it? He goes, these are the handwritten notes I wrote down in 1929 on how I was going to be successful. He said, I want to give this to you, but you got to promise me one thing. I said, what? He goes, do not let it die with you. And he gave them to me. And he passed away in September of 1997, but now I've got these notes and what do I do with them? I didn't do anything with him for about 15 to 16 years. I found them and felt bad because not only did I have gold in my hands, but to go back to what my dad told me. He said, your word is your bond. And I did not fulfill that promise.

And that's a little bit of what I do. I've had over 37, 38years of sales experience after Howard Johnson. And I was a top producer, and that was great. But now it's about after the miracle on the Hudson, which we'll talk about in a moment. But, that's when everything changed and started taking me a different direction.

Shane Jacob

Okay. Tell us a little bit more about working with these sales teams and how, you know, exactly what happened after that period of, with your friend.

Dave Sanderson

Yeah, I was, you know, I was a sales producer, a sales leader. And, you know, it was, you know, back then when you had teams, you sort of follow the corporate guidelines, um, on how to do that. But can't leave the…Shane. And I sort of went off the tracks because I was very blessed. Not only to have Bill in my life, but I had a gentleman named Tony Robbins who, uh, was head of security for now. I learned sort of a different methodology on how to, you know, influence people and help people get their outcomes.

So that's how I did that in a few different companies. And then, you know, when it came time to go out on my own, that's where I set me on a different pathway. So now I can, not only do I speak and teach all these strategies that I was able to learn and implement before and during the miracle in the Hudson, but take these strategies now and go to sales teams and sales leaders and show them how to really be more effective, be more authentic and grow it with how they go about their marketplace.

Shane Jacob

Right on. All right, well, you talked about the miracle on the Hudson. Some of us have seen the movie. A great movie, I thought, and you were there in real life. And so I just wondered if you could just tell us all about it.

Dave Sanderson

Yeah, thank you. And I was also, by the way, Shane, had three cameos in that movie. So if you go back and watch it, you got to watch closely, but I was in there three times. Um, yeah. So, you know, here's the highlights of that day. I was not supposed to be on that flight. I was scheduled on the five o'clock flight, but we got done with work early. We started our day at 5am, so we got done about 10. And, you know, my strategy back then, Shane, was always book the last, last flight out because you don't know how the day's going to go.

I had the last flight out, but then I had a chance to move up to get home early. So that's what I did. It happened to be flight 1549, or better known as the Miracle on the Hudson. I was one of the first passengers boarded because of my status, and I didn't pay attention. I thought I knew everything. I flew a hundred times a year. I knew everything. And so, you know, about the first minute into this thing, nothing going on, right? Normal takeoff. Everything's cool. Until about a minute after, it's when I heard an explosion. And that's what really, that's what got my attention because I never heard an explosion on a plane.

So I looked out the window, I saw fire coming out from beneath the left wing. So I knew something had happened, but you know, I fly a lot, so I knew planes lose engines and they have multiple engines. But no one knew at that point on the plane, at that time, that moment, what happened on the left side of the plane where I was sitting in 15A, also up on the right side of the plane. And I think that was a contributing factor that no one started losing it. I mean, I think everybody sort of thought, okay, we're just going back to the airport, get on another plane. Until you start banking, and obviously you see this bridge coming up. I'm like, I don't see, I've ever seen abridge going back to the airport before. And all of a sudden, as soon as we get to the bridge, he starts crossing. And the captain says his famous words, “This is your captain, brace for impact.” And that's the moment I knew that something serious was going on.

Cause all you could see at that point in time was water in front of you. And we only cleared the bridge by roughly 400 feet. So you knew that things were gonna get pretty serious pretty quickly. And that's the moment, Shane, we sort of started check in, right? I mean, I saw the movie of my life pass before my eyes. But more importantly, I wanted to make sure I was good with my creator at that point. I mean, ‘cause it looked like I was probably gonna be with him pretty soon. And I didn't wanna have any problems getting into heaven, so I prayed. And I just wanted to make sure that he and I had checked in. And then about 60 seconds after we crossed over the bridge when we crashed into the river. And it was an extremely hard hit. He estimates he hit between 110 and 120 miles an hour. It's that hard of a hit. But after we hit, after I got jarred a little bit, I came back up and I saw light out the window. So I knew I was alive, but now you got another issue. You got water coming in because the plane landed backside first, and water started coming towards the back where I was sitting towards the back of the plane.

So water was about knee deep and now you got another issue, you gotta get out. Now I played sports, Shane. And one of the things we did when I played on teams, we had a game plan. So my game plan was, I kept saying in my head, aisle up out, aisle up out, aisle up out. Because if I did survive, at least I want to have a chance. And this is my chance. So I say aisle up out. As soon as I get to the aisle, I'm ready to get out. There's something changed that day for me.  At that moment, my mom started talking to me in my head. And my mom had passed away in 1997. But when we were all young, she used to tell me something when I was a kid, it just popped in my head. It was, “If you do the right thing, God will take care of you.” And that, I tell people one of the great things about my mother, which was a great lesson for me, which unfortunately I have not followed enough. But she made her kids make decisions when they were young, so you had consequences when you were young. And, you know, I think that was the best lessons my mom taught me because you know, now a lot of us, including me and my wife, sometimes you just want to make the decision for our kids and now they don't know how to make a decision. And you know, all of a sudden they're all getting these participation trophies, and nothing goes wrong in their life because mom and dad always look after them.

So I think that was a great thing my mom did for me because I had to make a call. And the call I made was not to go out, but to go back towards the back of the plane and see if anybody needed help. You know, I grew up in a small town and outside of Cincinnati, Ohio for a few years and everybody took care of everybody. So got to the back of the plane. Things were moving pretty quick because now you've got chest level deep water in the back of the plane. Things are moving pretty quick. And then luggage is floating around because that's where the plane impacted and the bins are broken open. And I was making my way out. The first light that I saw was on the right side. Like I'm outta here. And then all of a sudden I looked out and there was no room on the wing of the boat for me. That's why I happened to stay in the plane for seven minutes holding on to the lifeboat because there was no room… Until, I felt the plane shift.

And what happened, I found out later, is one of the boats that was part of the rescue hit the front of the plane. And it shook the plane. That's when I started feeling the water up my back and I was like, I got to get out of here. This thing's going down like Titanic. And I jumped in as I swam to the closest boat that I could find. And I tell people that was the longest15-yard swim of my life. Because not only was I, the water was 36 degrees that day, Shane. I was fully clothed. But it also had jet fuel in the water, and that's why I got glasses on now, because they found jet fuel in my eyes when I got back home. But I got out, and that's how I got out of the plane. And now the rest of the story comes into play about how do you survive and bounce back?

Shane Jacob

Yeah, that is, that's something. So, I read that, you know, and you've just kind of explained that, but it said that despite, I think it was on your website, it said despite the hazards to yourself, you know, thinking of helping others, you did the right thing. And you emerged from the wreckage with a mission, and the mission was to encourage others to do the right thing. I wonder if you could just maybe just kind of go on with that. I think that's next.

Dave Sanderson

Yeah, you know, one of the things I realized after this, and I don't know if you see it, but I see it all the time, whether it's in the media or online or in person, but so many people right now, I believe, you know, have to be right instead of doing the right thing. They're more adamant that they have to be right, which causes a lot of dissension. I mean, let's look at the election we had a few years ago, right? Everybody had to be right. Now, you can't even talk to your neighbors unless you agreed with them. And so I think one of the things I learned from my mom is if you do the right thing more often or not, things will play out well for the situation. And more often or not, it will come back to you somewhere. It may not be immediately the best thing for you, but in the long run, it will show up somewhere else in your life that will pay you back. And I think that's why I advocate and share with people, you know, if you could just focus on doing the right thing, check your ego at the door and focus and not have to be right. And you know, I have to admit, you know, for many years, I was one of those people that had to be right. I mean, and then all of a sudden I realized after this, like, you know what, how did that cost me in my life? How many times have I could have had, if I had gone in a different direction, but I had to be the person to be seen to be right.

And that goes back to what I call the six human needs. And that goes back to how it's about me being significant. If I look at how to be right. And I always tell people, one of the things I love to watch are Marvel movies. You know, superheroes, I love superheroes. But one of the movies I think really articulated this point really well, you know, it's the movie Doctor Strange. And I don't know if anybody's seen it, but it was at that last moment with the agent was ready to go to heaven, and she's checking out. And the doctor strange is saying, “Hey,” you know, “Don't go, don't leave me.” And she looks at him and says, “Steven, you still don't get this. It's not about you. It's about something bigger than you.” And I think that was one of the greatest lines I ever heard in the movie. Because once that's what hit me across the head, it’s like, you're right, this whole thing is not about me. Right? It's about a bigger mission, and that's what I'm here to serve. So that's why I say, you know, if you give up being right, you have to be right to do the right thing. More often than not, it’ll pay you back.

Shane Jacob

That's so interesting. I think that, I don't know, it just seems like an automatic or a normal response that we need to be right. Maybe that's not true, but we think that we need to be right. We're constantly trying to prove ourselves, right? And for some reason, it seems to be so important to us a lot of times, and I think unless we're intentional about it, that we just go around trying to prove that we're right all the time, right?

Dave Sanderson

Thank you. I see that with a lot of youth. I mean, I see it with the youth. I mean, you look at TikTok, right? Look at Instagram, all the social media, right? It's all about them doing something and them being, you know, being right. And this country's going, that's one of the biggest problems in our country right now. What you're seeing on college campuses, and what you're seeing that is like, some of these youth, grown up, that, you know, they think they will be looked down on if they're not right instead of just doing the right thing. And, like I said, if you do the right thing, it will get noticed. May not be right now, right? But it will get noticed.

Shane Jacob

That's so interesting because you're exactly right. Because I think that whoever it is, whether it's me or whoever, if a lot of times we might think that if we're not right, that somebody will think different of us if we're not right. So then we're constantly trying to be right all the time, I guess, so that people will think that we're a certain way that we think that we want to be perceived, right? But it doesn't seem like it's serving us.

Dave Sanderson

No, I mean, you come across in authentic, and people pickup, people will pick up on that. I mean, one of the things that I really strive when I talked and worked with sales teams and in my speaking is, you know, when I think one of the things people are looking for right now and other people, whether it's the leaders they work with or managers, wherever it is, just be authentic, be yourself. I mean, you don't have to be right all the time. And the second point that I think the people are looking for is someone who's congruent. You know, they walk their talk, right? Whatever you said is going to happen, right? And your word is your bond. So I think that if you're focusing on having to be right, you come across as inauthentic and you're definitely not congruent. Because, Shane, I don't know about you, but I believe it was only one person who ever walked the earth was right every time. So, you know, that was my belief at least.

Shane Jacob

That's right. So, and we do know what's right, right? I mean, there's no argument that we, there shouldn't, maybe there shouldn't be an argument that we don't know what's right. I mean, we instinctively should know. If you consciously can recognize that, hey, I'm just trying to be right here and maybe it's okay if I'm not, and maybe it's better if I just do the right thing. I don't think that, I mean, I think that we have inside of us something that we are just born with guides us to what the right thing is. Does that sound right?

Dave Sanderson

I think everybody innately knows what the right thing is. I think unless you've grown up in a situation where, and there are people that have happened to, right? That they've had very terrible situations. And if their parents are not modeling that, they probably think that is the right way to do it. But I think more often than not, most people are brought up with parents that are trying to teach the kids right and wrong. I mean, my mom told me it was black and white, it's right and wrong.

So, I grew up in the 60s where, you know, there was a model of the world, right? I'll give you an example. Back, I don't know how old you are, but when I was growing up in the 60s, you had the Soviet Union and the United States. And, my parents taught me communism is wrong, capitalism is right. It's right and wrong. I grew up in a model of the world that was, there's black, there's a dark side.

Let’s look at World War II. Most people know that the Nazis were wrong. So, what happened? The whole world except for two other countries fought against them. So people I think know the right and wrong, but there will always be some of those on the dark side, right? That they just, they have to hold on to it so tight because that's their identity. And the strongest force you have in the world is your personal identity. And people, if you trial somebody's identity, all of a sudden they got to stand up and they think that's fighting words for that lot of people. It's fighting words.

Shane Jacob

Dave, you talk about, I hear a lot when you talk about creating opportunity out of uncertainty, and I was wondering if you could just expound on that.

Dave Sanderson

Yeah. Thank you very much because, you know, I really never thought a lot about it until after the miracle in the Hudson. And it really hit me when I was actually preparing for my TED Talk. And the backstory was that I got interviewed by AARP magazine. And I didn't know why they wanted to interview me, Shane. I mean, this magazine is for old people, right? What can I teach old people, right? It's exactly what I thought. They said, no, I said, listen, there's a couple of universities, they were doing a study on you about how you grew from a traumatic life event instead of going to PTSD. And we want to talk to you about what strategies did you do to bounce back? So, you know, I share this in this interview and all of a sudden I got asked to do some TED talks. I did a TED talk about it, and it went viral because when I think where people were really looking for it. And the real question,’ cause the question I get often most often asked, Shane, is you be ready to ask it today, but I get it all the time. “How'd you get back on a plane after you went through a plane crash?” People always wanna know, how'd you get back?

I tell people, what I've realized over the years, what people really ask me is, how did you gain the resiliency to turn this thing around and from that uncertainty called a plane crash? What strategy did you do? Because some people, as we know, went to PTSD or either had depression or PTSD out of this, right? And if you've seen the movie, you probably know or understand there were some people that were having challenges, right? But what did I do differently?

So that's why I realized, you know, you can create an opportunity out whatever uncertainty you may have. You know, you can, it's all and it all comes down to the meaning you attach to it. And that was, that's what came to me when I was in the green room of Good Morning America a few weeks after the plane crash. I saw somebody else who was a passenger, there's some passengers on the crew, and I heard this gentleman getting a little emotional. And my first thought, Shane, was what's wrong with him? We survived a plane crash and we're on national TV. I mean, how bad can it be? And then I found out later is the meaning he attached to that. Because he was going through a divorce and lost his job. So the meaning he attached to the plane crash was devastation. My life went a whole different direction where my meaning was it was a blessing. Same situation, two different meanings, two different directions. And I created an opportunity to serve instead of going down a different direction or going down a place where it could have been a pretty dark place, all because of the meaning I attached to it. That's part of the strategies that I teach people and how I show them when they go to a dark place. How do you turn this thing around? How do you bounce back and gain that resiliency to do it?

Shane Jacob

Awesome, very good. Dave, I was wondering if you could tell us about your books, Moments Matter, how one defining moment can create a lifetime of purpose.

Dave Sanderson

Yeah, thank you. I can't believe, Shane. I was not going to write a book, but you know, the backstory to how this came together is I was getting approached to write a book. But I said, you know, I've never written a book. I don't know what I'm doing. Right. I mean, I've got basically, I said, okay, I can tell you what happened that day and what I used, my skill sets that I used. And then that's what was the genesis of the book. But how the book really came about as we were putting our thoughts together… So I went down the street; my wife got a call from one of our neighbors. They were two older ladies, and they called my wife to ask her if she could help them get their TV working. Now, my wife called me while I was sitting right there. Said, can you go down and help them? I mean, they need their TV fixed. I'm pretty good a TVs. I can figure this one out, right? And I grew up in, like I mentioned, as mall town where everybody helped everybody. Especially if you're a neighbor and an elderly person, you jump in, you just do it.

So I went down there, Shane, and got the TV fixed pretty quick. Right. And they asked me to stay and say, listen, we want to give you some milk and cookies for your help. And I said, I love milk and cookies. What about you, Shane? I dig milk and cookies, man, especially from two older ladies could probably bake. Right. I'm all in. And we got these things called down south called parlors. All right. So they sat me in their parlor, and I'm sitting there and they had a coffee table and all these books. And I was reading these books, and I was looking at these and like these are about World War II. That's pretty cool. I love World War II, history, right? It's like, I've never seen these. And they came back out with the milk and cookies. I said, hey, where did you get them? I've never seen these books. She goes, listen, we were in the books. I mean, I said, what? She goes, they rolled up their sleeves and showed me the letters and numbers down their arm.

They survived the concentration camp. And I was blown away. I had never met anyone who survived a concentration camp. So now I'm turning the tables. For the next two hours, I'm interviewing them. I need to hear it, first hand accounts, about what's it like. And they were two sisters, had a large family, the rest of the family died. And their mother told them, longs tory short, if you get out of here, stay together because you're the only people you can count on. That's why they never married.

So when I got back to my office where I'm sitting right now, I called the lady Cindy who was helping me with this. I said, Cindy, I got it. All these ladies, I told their stories, that these ladies made every moment in their life matter because they survived something of one of the most horrific things you could ever have in your life, concentration, and they survived. I said, that's the story. I said, I realized that all the moments in our life are there for a reason and a purpose. They're there. You may just gloss over them. But one day that moment you did when you were 12 years old may come back to help you save your life or save somebody else's life. That is how Moments Matter came about in that book.

Shane Jacob

Awesome. That's a super great story. So interesting. I wanted to ask you, your book, Turmoil to Triumph, has an interesting title that resonates with us in that The Horsemanship Journey helps people to triumph from the turmoil of the fear and sometimes the shattered confidence that can happen from wrecks with horses and just experience with horses. I was wondering if you could just tell us a little bit more about the process that you have from turmoil to triumph.

Dave Sanderson

Thank you. When we were writing this book, this is actually, as I mentioned earlier, when I had my mentor Bill, he gave me these notes. This is one of the ways I actually took 12 of his lessons he taught me. This is what the book's about. How he in his early career starting in the 1920s grew a business. Because you're going back, I mean, when you look back at that era, he was during the Depression. He survived, did the world war. He also lost a son in Korea. So he had a lot of turmoil in his life just to be able to be successful. What did he do? Right? So this is what this book's about. So, one of the things that I talk about in the book is of course I talk about faith .And that's a story about when he lost his son in Korea. Because what happened to me was we lost a son at seven months. And he called me over to his office and I was talking to him and I was sort of out of it a little bit. And he shared with me a story about, you know, he had a son who went to Korea. He was in the army, but you know, he signed up in 1948 because that's what you do, right? Young men served. That was the model of the world in 1948. And no one thought in 1948 that Korea was gonna happen. And his son got called up to Korea.

And Bill said, you know, I had resources to get him out of this thing. But we knew that he had to do his duty, and he died in Korea. He said, you know, it was a great loss. But I also know one thing, that the same God that started this world is what Jesus took him and took your son for areas on. He said, you know, it's the same God, it doesn't change it. The only certain thing you have in your life is your faith. And that was a great lesson about how, how do you turn that turmoil from losing a child around is you start, you know, one of the things he did is he started with his faith and say, you know what? There's a bigger calling for my son than me in here. So that's what this book's about.

And I share these stories, but the real lesson I learned out of this book, Shane, was this. I wrote every word of this book. And I got done, I'm looking through it, and I send it off to the editors, right, to do their thing, right? And I'm looking through this, and I said, you know what? Is aid, one thing I realized is this. The things that Bill was teaching me and taught me, it's the same thing my mother taught me, that my dad taught me. But they were too close, right? Sometimes your mom and dad are just too close. Sometimes you need that third party, that mentor, to tell you, give you a different perspective on how do you can bounce back. Because one thing my mother always taught me and Bill told me, you're not the only one that's had a bad time, bad day. Right? He said, you know, Jesus had bad days too, right? I mean, you know, no one gets through this life without having a bad day.

Your folks who suffered trauma or being paralyzed from the horse situations, they've had bad days, but they're still here. So there's a mission for them. Now they gotta use that situation and create a story around it to help other people so they understand. Yeah, I survived this, I got out of it. Yes, I'm paralyzed, or yes, I've had tragedy, but I'm still standing.

Shane Jacob

Awesome.

Dave Sanderson

Same thing would happen with COVID, right? We got through COVID, we're still standing, right? So there's always gonna be something in our lives that's gonna be turmoil.

There's always something. Right now it's in the Middle East, a lot of turmoil. But you know what? Yeah, this is not the first time this has happened either. We will get through it.

Shane Jacob

Awesome. That's a super powerful message. We appreciate that. It's so interesting to see really the you know, what we do, like you mentioned with the Miracle on the Hudson, the choice really that you made, it was just a choice to decide what meaning that you're going to make out of this. I think it's a super powerful message for all of us with the circumstances that come to us. If we could recognize really that it is a choice and then decide to make the meaning that we want that will serve us. It's a super good message. So much appreciate your time here today. Dave, where do people find out about you and the things that you offer, speaking, and so on?

Dave Sanderson

Well, thank you very much, Shane. Yes, my website is davesandersonspeaks.com. All my sources and resources are out there. And if your listeners wanna go out there, just check me out. I've got my books that are out there. But more importantly, if they wanna go out and they click on the magazine, they can get a free download of my magazine called Moments Matter, the magazine. And there's stories about people's survival stories and how they became who they became. That's what the magazine's about is.

I ask people in this magazine, Shane, what's a moment in your life that triggered you to help you be who you are? So there's a lot of inspiration in the magazine. So they can get a free download if they go out there or, and or, they want to go to my page on LinkedIn at David Sanderson. You know, I write a blog every week about some new content that I have, that I'm working on or have implemented and share that publicly every week on Monday or Tuesday on LinkedIn. So either LinkedIn or more importantly, my website, davesandersonsspeaks.com.

Shane Jacob

Awesome. Dave, we so much appreciate you taking your time to be with us today, and we appreciate the message that you've shared with us. We wish you continued success. Ladies and gentlemen, Dave Sanderson.

Dave Sanderson

Thank you very much, Shane.

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